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Ultralight Vs Traditional Packs - What's the Best for you?

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** Stuff/Gear I Mention in this Video ** Osprey Atmos 65 - http://amzn.to/2niOKnl Osprey Aura 50 - http://amzn.to/2kcbyUE ZPacks Arc Blast 55 - http://www.zpacks.com/backpacks/arc_blast.shtml Granite Gear Crown 2 60 - http://amzn.to/2niuUZt ZPacks Nero - http://www.zpacks.com/backpacks/nero.shtml Palante’ Simple - http://www.palantepacks.com/store/p4/simplepack Gossamer Gear Kumo - https://www.gossamergear.com/collections/backpacks/products/kumo-36-superlight-backpack Osprey Exos - http://amzn.to/2i20mFU AZT Section Gear List - https://darwinonthetrail.com/2017/09/22/darwins-2017-azt-section-hike/ AT Gear List - https://darwinonthetrail.com/2016/05/03/darwins-2016-at-gear-list/ *** WAYS TO SUPPORT THIS CHANNEL *** Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/darwinonthetrail (Help Support my 2018 PCT Thru with a pledge as low as a $1/month) Visit our Etsy Shop! - https://www.etsy.com/shop/TravelandTrail *** Gear Used to Shoot this Video! *** - Camera - Canon EOS 77D - http://amzn.to/2zf5OQ9 - Lense - Canon EF 24mm IS USM - http://amzn.to/2zeJuWU - Sound - TakStar Shotgun Mic - http://amzn.to/2kMsAnM - TriPod - Targus 360 Trigger Tripod - http://amzn.to/2kMsU5Y ------Intro & Animation By: BlackStrap Media------ https://blackstrapmedia.com ------- Music By: Mike Boren -------- DISCLAIMER: This video and description contains affiliate links, which means that if you click on one of the product links, I’ll receive a small commission at no extra cost to you. This helps support the channel and allows us to continue to make videos like this. Thank you for the support! Contact information: Website: www.darwinonthetrail.com Instagram: Darwin_Onthetrail facebook: www.facebook.com/darwinonthetrail
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Text Comments (650)
Atube Viewer (12 hours ago)
Dude, Good info but Im guessing you couldn't talk if your hands were tied
Friar Rodney Burnap (1 day ago)
This is a traditional backpack.... Kelty Trekker 3950....
G Seymour (3 days ago)
Really enjoy your vids! Would like to try out this pack and winning it from your channel would make it all the sweeter.
KG82 (5 days ago)
Been rocking a osprey Zenith 75L for over 7 years now. Little on the heavy side. But worth every penny. Zipper busted on it after year 3, (I over stuffed the pocket and it was my own doing) Sent it to Osprey, got a brand new one no questions asked. Can't beat that warrantee. I know Arctyrx has the same type warranty as well.
Sparky Survivalist (5 days ago)
... my pack was $35 it's a used army pack I love it I can't go hiking on big trails I have a 1 ³/⁴ year old daughter.
Skyler.G (6 days ago)
Says they are heavy at 3 to 4 pounds.. uhhh okay??
Jasmine Clinton (6 days ago)
Hike your hike. Thx.
Carole Warner (7 days ago)
Love and appreciate the matter of fact, unbiased explanation of the various packs. Great video! I am, however, curious to know whether there are any of those old style totally external frame packs anymore (that had the pack sort of attached to an aluminum frame) that are actually popular. Do you know? Thanks again.
Aaron (10 days ago)
How about an ultralight traditional pack? I have an Osprey Exos 58(don't use a down bag, one reason my pack is "big") that I dropped half a pound from. 31 ounces, and it can carry heavy loads if needed(water carries and such) and is big enough for bulky winter gear when I do that. I've probably made half of my gear with sewing. The pack did take a lot of work, but I like it much better now, and I've added capability to collapse it down to daypack size, so I only need one pack for all hikes.
builderbob26 (14 days ago)
Thank you such much for taking the time to show us Great Video Reviews. I often wonder if the Ultra Lite crowd wonders just like I do, what was the original builders of these Wonderful Trails(East & West Coast) was lugging around & How much they had to carry. No Mountain House meals & Titanium Cook-sets back than. They would work circles around me, and I grew up on a Chicken...Now Cattle farm & building homes with my dad. I Tip my hat to all those that did this 20+ years ago. But, Hey! If I can find a Lighter, Better Tool for the Job, Who wouldn't buy it. How many Farmers still use a Horse & Plow instead of a Tractor!? I am the owner of PineLAN Communications. I train the US Army Special Forces here in NC. This is the Only Place in the world where they can complete the 50yr old Pineland Robin-Sage Exercise. My father is Pineland Bob. I have started backpacking again and also bought a bunch of UL Gear. The Students & Cadre Team Srgts literally laughed me outta camp when I started showing off my UL Gear. BUT, THEY WERE ALSO VERY JEALOUS. Their Rucks start out at 105lbs, Weapon & Ammo 27lbs +(More if your carrying a SAW). 23lbs of water. Their Rucks/Pack-Out is between 150-165+Lbs. They Jump out over Uwharrie Forrest here in NC. They Hike them in between 10-20km all night with no Fancy Trails to follow. Straight thru the Briars & Forest, just like they would have to do in an Enemies Country. They could literally carry most AT Thru hikers & their 20lb base weight packs & still cover more ground. If they were carrying 25lb base, they could do 40+ miles a day on the AT. My Dad is the Guy with the long Gray beard and Blue Pickup. Thank you for the HIKE YOUR OWN HIKE. Here's a LINK to a GREAT ULTRA LITE Pillow It COST 88 Cents, I've bought them by the Case of 50 pieces. I would like to send you some for helping this 46yr old man get back to discovering the Great Outdoors & get to those Hidden Trout Streams. https://www.4mdmedical.com/graham-medical-flexair-quality-disposable-pillow-patient-support.html https://randolphhistory.wordpress.com/tag/pineland/ https://www.journalnow.com/news/state_region/exercises-in-pineland-mythical-country-in-ramseur-is-the-setting/article_8392da5d-c6ab-5e43-acbc-b838f34eb158.html https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1eLYRDBJk8 https://www.journalnow.com/news/state_region/exercises-in-pineland-mythical-country-in-ramseur-is-the-setting/article_8392da5d-c6ab-5e43-acbc-b838f34eb158.html
Tbob Mann (15 days ago)
I'll stick with my old dana designs alstralplane overkill.. its cavernous and 1000d cordura..at 25yrs and 6 continents of travel...I'm not buying into this cheap shit.. with a 1yr warranty..lol.. you kids really missed out on quality gear..
William Salmon (18 days ago)
William Salmon (18 days ago)
I have used Zpacks Zero pack (36L) for quick local, three day trips. Works great for a minimal amount of gear and available water. My main pack is the 60L ArcBlast, really good for my section hikes on the PCT, carry more gear and warmer sleeping bag for the Sierras. Haven't needed to strap on a bear canister yet. I made up my own V-strap, so will give it a try in the future.
Nathan Wilson (21 days ago)
One pound, five pounds, what's the difference? You're paying so much more to drop an insignificant amount of weight, just get stronger people! Lite weight is a gimmick. How much of a yuppie can you people be?
Tommy Seabee (21 days ago)
I take it military rucks are off the table
Jessem (24 days ago)
What I got out of this was "buy an ultralight pack if you're ok paying three times the price for a slight reduction in weight and a major reduction in pretty much everything else"
Olivia Marshman (26 days ago)
I’ve been using the Gregory Amber 44, but find it too warm and bulky. My base weight is just under 11lbs, if I can cut it down a bit more I might get a hyperlight but living in Canada, it’s a little bit more difficult to get products from American cottage companies
alan davis (27 days ago)
Put the same amount of gear in an ultralight pack vis a vis a traditional one with a proper harness I'll guarantee those carrying the ultralight pack will have a much sorer back and shoulders at the end of the day. Ultralight gear is fine when walking on well formed and graded trails but if doing hard core hiking in rugged untracked backcountry you need hard core gear.
Geor Tremb (1 month ago)
I really enjoy your videos and am learning a lot. I use to do a lot of trail hiking back in the 70's. i am retired now and thinking of getting back in to day or weekend hiking with my wife. Your videos are a great help. They are clear, easy to understand and to the point. Thank you. We live in Minnesota, and the landscape from one area to another is always changing. Lots of hills and valleys, in summer bugs are always an issue, as is extreme high and low temps, as are bears, wolves and moose. Can you direct us to any of your videos you think might help? have you hiked Minnesota at all. Upper Minnesota has a lot to offer. Thanks again for your videos.
Kevin Schart (1 month ago)
would have been nice if you showed the weight for all of the packs. that way we could actually compare apples to apples
Roadhand Viking (1 month ago)
Want an army surplus medium alice pack with frame. Wanna be able to carry the kitchen sink if I so desire
Garrett (1 month ago)
Very helpful. Great video!
Kerry Shrode (1 month ago)
Just discovered your videos from an RV friend. You videos are absolutely AWESOME. thank you so much. they are SO informative. you are great at telling it like it is and are seriously fun to watch.
Unfassbar Leicht (1 month ago)
I you use the granite gear virga II. A frameless ultralight pack with only 540 g and 55 ltr. capacity. The material is a strong light ripstop-nylon. A nice alternative to expensive dyneema-packs. The price is only 191 USD/165 €.
G Henrickson (1 month ago)
Nice video. Thanks
bikegirl2 (1 month ago)
ultralight try that shit in winter end up in a body bag x
Ryan Lundquist (1 month ago)
Hey Darwin! A very comfortable and durable option is the Tactical Tailor military rucksack. Those rock. Keep up the good work!
Benjamin Davis (1 month ago)
What are your opinions on the Goruck packs?
Virtanen (2 months ago)
I'm totally getting the Crown 2
Andy Jonelis (2 months ago)
Great video...guess I need to take that 5 minute ride from my house and visit ZPacks
Abbey-Marie Slatter (2 months ago)
I got a Futura 28L slimline. It is a framed pack and it is specifically designed for women, as the 30L is designed for men. It kind of has a brain which you cannot remove. However, if you want something to go on the top of it like a mat, you can get some bungee cords and they can clip onto the top of the pack. I bought this pack as it was on sale, and also I am planing on doing a couple of hikes in Thailand in November. The first is a two day hike and the second is a one day hike. I'm supper dupper excited for the holiday and for the hike, and because of where I am going it is going to be very hot, so my bag is ideal as the frame is designed to give you maximum air flow in between you and the pack. I'm already in love with this pack, and these two hikes I am going on will be my first, but hopefully not my last.
Mike Howard (2 months ago)
Granite Gear Meridian owner. Took off the Top-Lid, cut off some extra straps, trimmed off attachments not needed, shaved over 2.5 lbs off the pack. Perfect 60L pack!
Craig Stensaas (2 months ago)
I'm really looking hard at the Mountain Hardwear Scrambler RT 40...Looks like a solid pack, kinda pricey maybe? But looks like it could stand the test of time and trail if properly cared for.
Josh Silver (2 months ago)
Absolutely love my *middle of the road* osprey talon 44! At 2.25 pounds it's still very light weight without giving up most of the comfort features of more traditional pack.
Tarryn Aitken (2 months ago)
Best pack for bad lower back ? Osprey drills my back just against it.
Laura S. (2 months ago)
I have an MEC Mistral 40L...and I really dislike it. I wound up finding your videos while doing research for a new pack :) Thanks for all the tips!
insanogeddon (2 months ago)
Kelty Redwing 50 can't be beat.
Birch (2 months ago)
aussieevonne (2 months ago)
Hey Darwin. I want to thank you for putting in the metric weights of the packs. It saved me from having to do the conversion myself. :-) Thanks for thinking of your non-American and non-British viewers who are used to using metric measurements, and not imperial. I love your videos.
Joyseeker (2 months ago)
I'm nervy about going without a frame again. For a halfway house how's about a Berghaus Fast Hike 45? https://youtu.be/t5rPpKea-D4
Coloring With Coco (3 months ago)
Great videos! Plz keep them coming!
Liam Brown (3 months ago)
I like the idea of going ultralight and using cuben fibre, but i'm more of a canoeist than a hiker, and i don't know if the cuben fibre would be able to hold up to long portages and being tossed in and out of a canoe.
Kerri Thompson (3 months ago)
Darwin....have you tried the ULA packs at all?? any feedback from anyone??? looking at the Circuit....
kman 4443 (3 months ago)
I have a Dueter and I'm pretty happy with it so far, have had it about 5 months.
Benjamin Bigham (3 months ago)
In your cuben fibre gear vid you said that it was super super durable, but the cuben fibre pack only lasts one thru hike?
fukthegoog (3 months ago)
I love my Granite Gear Virga 2. So much I'll probably get another one for wifey.
shade231 (3 months ago)
The main thing of anything is to go somewhere anywhere and put it on. It was like the osprey and the gregory that I wanted. But wanted to test against each other for feel. I didn't like the osprey, it was ok but if im spending that cash I better damn love it. The greg baltoro I loved everything about it EXCEPT it would not fit right. Something about my build or my back frame would not go with the backpack and I tried both sizes as I was in the middle. The top of the pack would rub lightly on the back of my head if I stood upright. And im average at 6 feet and 198 pounds. Now I tried on others and some were nice but I ended up going for the gregory stout. Putting it outright felt great, but it felt even better especially with about 36 pounds in it because of its adjust-ability. It was the new one where the size is ranged because it adjusts in so many places. Went for the 65 as I liked it a lil more then the 75 for some reason. And my base weight is 26 lbs with a few lbs of luxury to me like my long knife that weighs about a lb 2oz. Tent is about 5 lbs marmot 2 person, summer fall bag is about 1lb 6oz So ya I could shave lbs, but I got all those on great deals and I didn't feel the need to drop 5 to 800 on the lightest material known to man. Plus I like my tent, its my luxury lol But going there and trying them on is key. I cannot state that enough.
Great video, Darwin! Your speeches are always good understanding as far as I'm an English speaking guy. Very interesting and useful info. One of my favourite channels so far. Greetings from Ukraine!
Patric Mbonani (3 months ago)
And they are on sale now! (-50%)
$325 for a controversial backpack - it's a little bit of expensive
Rob Lee (3 months ago)
Still using the Go Lite Jam 50 after all these years! Helium bivy, and the a-sym hammock tarp works great and light. Would love the z-pack, but can't afford it. It's not where you hike, but who hikes with you. Thanks for all the videos and info!!
Nadeem Leon (3 months ago)
I just wanted to say bro can u plz plz tel me what’s going to be the best sleeping bag for -30 wheather conditions
skyler hull (3 months ago)
Love your videos. Just getting into hiking and backpacking, trying to get my gear together and get out on some trails. Can't wait to see more of your videos.
cowpoke02 (3 months ago)
maybe cedar framed back pack be good invention as well or bass wood .
cowpoke02 (3 months ago)
buy ultra light then reuse the parts .. might as well make plastic or foam pack with a lid . only year makes me cry . be nice to travel pack .. see how to seal and make them .. if ya doing one trip once while you got money to blow . then buy new pack every time .. cheaper than knee surgery right and hip replacements . haha
cowpoke02 (3 months ago)
think when ya 35 to hundred years old . you wished you did ultra light. still be healthy and hiking . didn't destroy all ya joints .. trust me . farming. never carry hardly anything .. might just take plastic tarp with ya. hiking poles . string . lol. thanks for the video ... light you stay healthy over life .. or end up buying a cure or temp cure . operations .
Jackie Cauthron-Schafer (3 months ago)
Hi Darwin! I'm a middle aged woman who has decided to try long distance hikes as a way to get out in nature more and improve my health. I love nature and am pretty excited! I just want to thank you for your thoughtful videos. You are all about the hike and the equipment, and are wise enough to know that what works for you won't necessarily work for others. You also avoid the trivial. I really appreciate that! I'm commenting mostly to thank you for helping me think about gear and loads in a different way. I can't handle a ton of weight, but your videos touch on a range of items, rather than just a rabid love of whatever works for you. I am leaning towards more ultralight gear with a few heavier options. but you've given me the information to know what the weight and comfort levels are on many products and to rethink what might have seemed like necessities- before I even start. Thank you!!! Say hi to Snuggles- she's adorable and just as inspiring. Keep up the good work!
Jim Williams (3 months ago)
I have the Osprey Atmos 65 for multi-day thru hikes, or winter hikes where i need to carry snow shoes etc. I just picked up a Black Diamond Speed 40 for weekend trips (3 days or less).
Martin Blažek (3 months ago)
What backpack would you recommend for a person with herniated discs (L4 - L5 / S1) for longer trails? Thanks.
Palmer Hurst (3 months ago)
I've got a Osprey Atmos AG 50L but I'm thinking about switching to the Granite Gear Crown2
2btpatch (3 months ago)
The video gives a good overview of where to start researching a pack that is right for you. Good info. Thanks, Darwin. Could you also do a video about UL tents? I wasn't aware of tents that could be supported by trekking poles until I saw your videos.
Road Wonder (3 months ago)
I am doing tons of research for a long distance hike in 2020. After a few weeks I have concluded that your voice and delivery is the easiest on the ears. Tonight I am looking at packs and remembered you - here I am. I hope the channel is benefiting you because it sure is helping me.
Pinetree Outdoors (3 months ago)
i bought a regatta easypack 25l for 12 euro. yay i gotta super cheap frameless pack! oh i am thinking about switching to a regatta survivor 65 on my birthday
`Randy Cuffaro (3 months ago)
Can I ask...how did you attach the water bottle to your shoulder straps?...is there a bottle holder made for this?
NocturnalYetti (3 months ago)
76 people don't like backpacking
Aldo Sarretti (3 months ago)
You can go with Walmart bag thats no too long life, not too durable, without belts and whistles and weights less that 1 OZ... and its cheap. I'm an ultralight hiker but i want good back system on my backpack... Thanks for the review!😎
Peter Ankerstål (4 months ago)
I recently switched to the Exped Thunder 50. I this context its probably a middle of the road pack. I really love it since you can open it up with zipppers all the way down like a panel loader.
The best backpack is the one you can afford.
Zerm Ora (4 months ago)
I hiked from sequoia through King Canyon national Park over and down mount Whitney
Mark Smith (4 months ago)
Great vid, osprey all the way for me, that bomb proof guarantee means a lot!
Carlos Merighe (4 months ago)
I want to take a toaster oven, blender, microwave oven and a small fridge. Which backpack do you recommend?
bombingbloke (4 months ago)
I swear by Bach packs. Quite heavy I believe but almost bulletproof and Extremely comfortable straps.
Tobin Smith (4 months ago)
I use the osprey atmos 65 ag pack I need the extra comfort but I don't us the brain that much.
Trackhat (4 months ago)
can we get a Flextrek 37trillion review please
Edward Kenny (4 months ago)
You're videos are superb. Happy 11th Anniversary!
MrKebabsarre (4 months ago)
what a fucking poser. brand that, brand this. not a single noteworthy fact about backpacking....
Anni Saarela (4 months ago)
I have an Osprey fairview 55 (there's a detachable 13l backpack included which I would not take with - so the actual backpack being then 42l) - I plan on doing the PCT in a few years and have never hiked in desert climates nor done a thru hike as I am from Northern Europe. I'm wondering whether a "travel backpack" such as this will be good for this trail or do I need to buy a new one especially made for hiking? Anyone with any experience? I have backpacked around Asia with this bag and done some smaller hikes but it is my first backpack and I am not quite sure whether there are huge differences on travel and hiking backpacks. Would appreciate any and all thoughts on the matter! :)
Karl Pfeiffenberger (4 months ago)
i've got the baltoro 75 from gregory. it's really sweet. you get a lot of storage, not too much weight, and a great backpack. perfect for packrafting and backpacking.
Chris Boyle (4 months ago)
I really like my hyperlite mountain gear pack. The cuben fiber is on the thicker side and it 70L but only a few ounce more than the 50L. And it makes a great mountaineering pack too!
Rashad Nagi (4 months ago)
I love the channel, first off, it has been super helpful for me and I am glad i found it. But I was wondering, if I am starting out, packs are rather expensive but I found one on Amazon by Teton would this be a good start up option?
FPG Vlog (4 months ago)
still love my Exos 48 and aether 60 AG :D
Anders Sandström (4 months ago)
I have been using the Granite Gear Alpine Vapor for a couple of  years and I love it. Yes, it is a bit sturdy with it´s reinforced front but it also feels like it is going to last a lifetime. I cut the little axe-holders-straps away and will be replacing these with some lighter options. Single compartment with two large mesh side-pockets makes it easy to pack and unpack. I haev Heard some negative input regarding the long roll-top but I don´t feel it is a problem since I pull it on the outside of the pack when messing around inside. Wonderful shoulder straps and waistbelt in my opinion. I carry loads of up to 18 kg without problem. Weighs in at around 1 kg.
Erich Diehl (5 months ago)
No external frame hunting packs, like Kuiu, Kifaru, or Mystery Ranch?
EDC Adventures (5 months ago)
Thanks for sharing. About to use the Klymit Motion 35 for my summer UL setup
James Emerson (5 months ago)
I had a Kelty external frame pack in 1978 while hiking the AT. In today's UL era I have found the Zpacks Arc Haul to be the ideal pack for me. It's very comfortable with a carbon fiber frame that allows you to create the amount of airspace you want between the pack and the mesh trampoline against your back. At my full load of around 25-27 pounds, it is very comfortable. The frame is the same as the Arc Blast, but I'm expecting the Gridstop fabric to last a long time. That remains to be seen, but the Arc Haul is a high quality and expensive product that I believe will prove to be a good investment for the long haul.
Gnome Add (5 months ago)
4lbs is a heavy pack? It’s official- I’m old. Times have changed.
Reef Larkin (5 months ago)
I use a lumbar bag- I have a shoulder injury and I tried an 80%-to-hips distribution pack and going ultra light but it still was painful. Technically now I'm very minimalist in what I take- but it's ultra-small rather than ultra-light just because my focus is on it fitting into my lumbar bag which is about 20L- obviously that involves attaching things on the outside (sleeping mat, rainjacket etc.) and I don't check weight, just whether or not it fits. I also add a hip bag (aka bum bag but on the front) for snacks and stuff.
Heath DeWalt (5 months ago)
Wow. Your channel is really well done!
Abderrahmane rawnak (5 months ago)
just got mine, Super https://www.ebay.com/itm/183294188661
Anime4 Mii (5 months ago)
Best backpack for just traveling to state???
Bobby Karnavas (5 months ago)
No external frame packs?
Julie Fréchette (5 months ago)
I bought the new version of the Gregory Deva 60. Will be going on my first overnight backpacking trip this weekend. Thanks to you and all your informative videos 😊
ANCHOR440 (5 months ago)
Got an old 40 liter JanSport traditional that weighs 26 oz. Works great for long trails and just big enough. Thanks Darwin.
JASON'S WORLD (5 months ago)
I own at least a dozen packs. The best one to use depends on what you like to do while hiking. For hunting and fishing other than ultralight, I still prefer my 30+ year old Camp Trails Omega pack. This pack has over 5000 miles of use, is stiched together and modified to my liking, and can haul more than you'll want to carry. I like the frame for strapping heavy rods, and my gun sleeve to. Now when I go hiking/fly fishing, I go semi-ultralight with my LL bean Whiteface Mt. It hauls plenty of gear, and has taken the abuse of weeks at a time bushwhacking my way into fishing areas. For work use hiking I like the CFPP system by the military. It can be modified for use to haul in chainsaws, fuel, axes and gear for backcountry fire safety, staging areas, or just off-grid construction, as is my business.
Gabe Day (5 months ago)
I’m thinking about switching to the HMG wind rider because I want to start packing more UL.
Geography in Action (5 months ago)
I'm disabled and my hikes are usually short and done over time. I get out in the bush for two reasons; I love being out there, and second, it is a component to getting my degree. I'm 50 and old-school to a point. All of my gear is light-weight, but I pack it in a military grade, Karrimor SF Sabre 45 with optional 12.5 l side-pockets. 45-70 l total. I sometimes need to pack a computer, instruments for weather and climate testing, and extended food supplies. I also went old school and replaced my old Danner Mountain Lights with new Mountain Lights because a lighter boot just doesn't support my foot when I'm recovering from a degenerative bone disease. If I were 100%, yes, I might buy a lighter pack but I still feel that some of these would not carry some of the gear I need. How would one of these light packs hold -up to having a snow-shovel, saw or instrument tripod being lashed to them?
Gnome Add (5 months ago)
Wow, things have changed. I have a Lowe pack that is around 40 years old, has carried well over 80 lbs for many, many thousands of miles and might have reached it’s halfway point by now.
Coolwheelz (5 months ago)
You missed framed packs......yeah, may be old school, but still some of the best around, they don't have to be heavy and can be super comfy........
Brythonic (6 months ago)
Great video 👍
Jasper Williams (6 months ago)
thank for metric conversions
Quaker274 (6 months ago)
1 year warrenty... Tells me the product, or meterial got a flaw somewhere.

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